When fiction becomes “truth “. And, as you point out, the internet is an independent agent. It recycles a story until truth and fiction merge. This article took a lot of research, which most of us don’t bother to do. Thanks for your energy in presenting the perversions.
These two books are as meticulously researched as "Six Days of War." It's best to read many books, assess the research and analysis, and come to your own understanding.
So glad you covered this ‘research’ paper. My own sister has been beguiled by it for a long time. There is no end to historical revisionism (Hitler and his geneticist goons) when it comes to war. Whole nations and ‘kingdoms’ magically appeared after WW1…
These people will really bend over backwards to prove their point. If you look at the Palestinian “history” with head tilted, one eye squinted, you can kinda see their revisionist narrative. It’s hard to compete with the Jewish 2000 year old well documented written and archaeological history. Our history is literally written in stone.
What you say is not true of all religious preachers. There are some that actually teach their followers to read and understand what is written and to read a lot.
If you were ever in a Jewish home, you would see shelves and shelves of books of all kinds.
If you are not a Jew or you have not studied the Torah over years of intensive study, then excuse me if I do not accept what you say about the Torah. And the Torah does not "preach" -- "preach" is not a Jewish term for teaching or guiding.
I am an Jew in terms of heritage but I do not believe in Judaism I read a lot and heard a lot about the Torah and I say that you did not read it because if you read it and was a devout to God you would make his commandments
You can't "hear a lot" about Torah and think you know it. How do you know how much or how little I read the Torah. What do you know about following the commandments. Tell me, for a Jew -- how many commandments are there?
Look I do not saying there is an victim and an opressor dichotomy i am trying to clarify that the situation of not only Israel/Palestine but all humanity could be seeing as an drama in the sense as confusion escalated creating confusion
But when you talk in general terms over all humanity, you actually talk about nobody. Do you think people in Armenia would agree with you? In the former Yugoslavia? Each place has its own characteristics. If you do not take these into consideration, you do not understand the particular situation. A general theory is okay for a place to start, but that is all it can be. A place to start.
The 613 commandments are for the Jewish People collectively. Some commandment are for women, some for men, some for parents, some for children, some for priests (Kohanim), some for kings, etc. Many of them do not apply in today's world and will not apply until the Messiah comes.
Also I was thinking about the situation of the ultra Orthodox Jews and the war on Lebanon
Because if you remember my point ,war is not an moral activity it is a survival struggle
An example is when someone gives an “ethical” justification like
“What you value is right” it means we are on your side
“They wanna take what you value”they are allocating an enemy and causing fear on the recipient
For an example let’s say there are two charismatic preachers that want the ultra Orthodox Jews to go to war
One is very weaker and says”we need to win this war for the other Jews” this does not shock them because what they value the most are the Jewish book
The another is very stronger and says”they are coming to destroy your books!!! They are coming to take your rights!!!” This it is more effective as they behave as an alarm not as an argument and when they say your rights they are demonstrating that they also value what you value
The “science”, flawed as it may be, isn’t really relevant to the current Palesrael (one state) political and human rights conundrum.
Perhaps we would do best by keeping it simple and concluding that a people who lived in and on a land for 1000-1500+ years and 8000+ generations are indigenous, whether they be Jews, Muslims or Christians.
Within the boundaries of what Israeli Jews like to call Eretz Israel (precisely matching up with the regrettable “from the river to the sea” definition) there are an equal number of Jews and Arabs and the demographic trends clearly indicate that the Arabs, mostly Muslims, will before long be in the majority.
Nobody can imagine a case under which either of the Jews or the Arabs will go away via ethnic cleansing and neither side (except for lunatic fringes) imagines that they can kill all of “the other”.
Tragically, the lunatics on both sides have voices that are listened to too much. And a disproportionate amount of what passes for the policy of these genocidal nuts somehow morphs into tragic actions. No need to review what Hamas did on 10/7 and in the time since then. And the carnage that has killed almost 42,000 in Gaza speaks for itself.
The fact that the West Bank is now on fire with Israeli Jewish (a distinction that always should be made so blame doesn’t fall on the 23% of Israelis who are Arabs) settler/squatters rampaging get far less attention than it should.
In February of 2023, long before 10/7, hundreds of these settler/squatters rampaged through the Palestinian West Bank town of Hawara, killing one Arab and injuring over a hundred, according to the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem. All this occurred as the IDF sat tranquilly by.
The Hawara incident should have led to an outraged response by Israel’s government. Instead Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said, “Hawara needs to be wiped out. I think the State of Israel needs to do that — not, God forbid, private individuals.”
For those who can get beyond The NY Times paywall, the front page, above the fold article “In Israel, the reality of on state” article is well worth reading. It was written by the Israeli Hagai El-Ad.
If you are using B'Tselem and NYT for your information, you are getting very biased views. I'm not saying don't read them, but also read other sources that have other approaches and in the end make your own decision. So much of what you write above is wrong and would require a whole separate article to refute the points.
In any case, you totally missed the point of the article.
Well. Of course, The NY Times ownership and editorial staff as well as those who are part of B’Tselem are all antisemitic.
So what part of why I wrote did you specifically disagree with? I have no problem agreeing that Palestine/Israel was populated by Jews hundreds and thousands of generations ago.
I think we had this discussion already. Palestinians are not Arabs. They are genetically indigenous. They just skip over the fact that this means they’re 70% Jewish. Egyptian Moroccans Syrians Iraqis are all Arabized locals. It wasn’t Arab colonialism. It was Arab conquest.
In order to "conquest" one needs soldiers. Part of the conquest is impregnating the local population.
If they want to claim indigenous status because they are Islamized Jews, then let them say that rather than saying they are Canaanites. It would be interesting if 70% (if that is the real stats) of them announced to the world that they are indigenous, not because they are Arabs, but because they are Islamized Jews. Hmmmm.
I speak to Palestinians uploading their genetic data on Reddit (see illustrativedna and search Palestinian). Pretty much 75% of the Palestinians in this group have stipulated they’re Israelites. This sentiment hasn’t reached the general public yet.
When fiction becomes “truth “. And, as you point out, the internet is an independent agent. It recycles a story until truth and fiction merge. This article took a lot of research, which most of us don’t bother to do. Thanks for your energy in presenting the perversions.
It does take work and that work is most satisfying when I can debunk garbage academic papers
Unless David Abulafia, the great historian, is proven wrong (which I very much doubt) I stick to his description of the peoples of the Mediterranean.
I would take almost anyone's description over these clowns.
@Sheri Oz:
Can you recommend a book that objectively covers the history of modern Israel? I’ve found a couple that don’t and am disheartened.
Sorry. I haven't found any one book. I read many
I’m open to suggestions.
Something like Michael B. Oren’s “Six Days of War”.
Benny Morris "1948."
Einat Wilf "The War of Return."
These two books are as meticulously researched as "Six Days of War." It's best to read many books, assess the research and analysis, and come to your own understanding.
So glad you covered this ‘research’ paper. My own sister has been beguiled by it for a long time. There is no end to historical revisionism (Hitler and his geneticist goons) when it comes to war. Whole nations and ‘kingdoms’ magically appeared after WW1…
Kind of amazing, eh?
These people will really bend over backwards to prove their point. If you look at the Palestinian “history” with head tilted, one eye squinted, you can kinda see their revisionist narrative. It’s hard to compete with the Jewish 2000 year old well documented written and archaeological history. Our history is literally written in stone.
But all you guys came from Shem so all of you are semites this fight is not an ethnic fight is a fight between ideas
I agree — it’s a fight between ideas. The Islamic idea is that everyone in the world has to be Muslim. If not, you are either dead or you pay jizya.
I don’t know who you are — you hide behind anonymity. So I don’t know what you think about being Muslim
To be an Muslim is to believe the preachers how preach an book you do not read to verify
Like most believers
And generally the preacher preaches whatever get him powers
I am from Brazil and I say that we have an problem from these blind believers as they do not seek truth and are moved by charlatans like an shepherd
Here we have an joke about the profane trinity that is religion,politics,and soccer
(Yes people fight wars,conspire,and disseminate hate against other based on soccer teams as they view them as factions)
What you say is not true of all religious preachers. There are some that actually teach their followers to read and understand what is written and to read a lot.
If you were ever in a Jewish home, you would see shelves and shelves of books of all kinds.
I agree not all but the most of them because they preache in masses
To be true you are demonizing to much people I understand you situation to be afraid but that is not what the Torah preach
If you are not a Jew or you have not studied the Torah over years of intensive study, then excuse me if I do not accept what you say about the Torah. And the Torah does not "preach" -- "preach" is not a Jewish term for teaching or guiding.
I am an Jew in terms of heritage but I do not believe in Judaism I read a lot and heard a lot about the Torah and I say that you did not read it because if you read it and was a devout to God you would make his commandments
You can't "hear a lot" about Torah and think you know it. How do you know how much or how little I read the Torah. What do you know about following the commandments. Tell me, for a Jew -- how many commandments are there?
10
But besides the commandment There are teachings after Moses
No. That is what I thought you would say. For Jews, there are 613 commandments. The ten commandments are for non-Jews.
The 613 commandments are in the Torah.
And yes, I know about the teachings after Moses. I think you will have to work very hard to tell me something about Judaism that I do not know.
Look I do not saying there is an victim and an opressor dichotomy i am trying to clarify that the situation of not only Israel/Palestine but all humanity could be seeing as an drama in the sense as confusion escalated creating confusion
But when you talk in general terms over all humanity, you actually talk about nobody. Do you think people in Armenia would agree with you? In the former Yugoslavia? Each place has its own characteristics. If you do not take these into consideration, you do not understand the particular situation. A general theory is okay for a place to start, but that is all it can be. A place to start.
I actually responded your point as “all humanity could be seeing as an drama in the sense as confusion escalated creating confusion”
I don’t understand this.
Is it saying that the 613 are on the Talmud
Not on Torah
And you are wrong
The Ten Commandments where on Moses tablets
yes, they were. But the 613 commandments that Jews are instructed to follow are in the Torah
And tell me do you follow the 613 commandments?
The 613 commandments are for the Jewish People collectively. Some commandment are for women, some for men, some for parents, some for children, some for priests (Kohanim), some for kings, etc. Many of them do not apply in today's world and will not apply until the Messiah comes.
What I am seeing is that all what god tells was temporal like do you sacrifice the paschal nowadays ?
This is what I wrote above -- some commandments do not apply today.
Also I was thinking about the situation of the ultra Orthodox Jews and the war on Lebanon
Because if you remember my point ,war is not an moral activity it is a survival struggle
An example is when someone gives an “ethical” justification like
“What you value is right” it means we are on your side
“They wanna take what you value”they are allocating an enemy and causing fear on the recipient
For an example let’s say there are two charismatic preachers that want the ultra Orthodox Jews to go to war
One is very weaker and says”we need to win this war for the other Jews” this does not shock them because what they value the most are the Jewish book
The another is very stronger and says”they are coming to destroy your books!!! They are coming to take your rights!!!” This it is more effective as they behave as an alarm not as an argument and when they say your rights they are demonstrating that they also value what you value
It’s not an moral absolute way
But more of an panic way to survival
Also did you see the videos of dead Palestinian children? Like it’s is overwhelming
And I know they could take video on other places like Syria but this point it does not seem plausible
Note:
I do not ascribing one side as an absolute monster as this labels Israel/Palestine does not represent the contradictory wills within
Do you know how many of those videos and images are fake? https://www.israeldiaries.com/hamas-lies-war-against-hamas-part-iii/
Yeah i know there disinformation too on the media
But I mean burnt children with the legs cooked with the yellow color of chicken skin
And the burned face with the blood as black like barbecue which the only thing intact is the eyelids who still pinky
The image was here somewhere on substack
show me because I would like to see if it is fake or real
The “science”, flawed as it may be, isn’t really relevant to the current Palesrael (one state) political and human rights conundrum.
Perhaps we would do best by keeping it simple and concluding that a people who lived in and on a land for 1000-1500+ years and 8000+ generations are indigenous, whether they be Jews, Muslims or Christians.
Within the boundaries of what Israeli Jews like to call Eretz Israel (precisely matching up with the regrettable “from the river to the sea” definition) there are an equal number of Jews and Arabs and the demographic trends clearly indicate that the Arabs, mostly Muslims, will before long be in the majority.
Nobody can imagine a case under which either of the Jews or the Arabs will go away via ethnic cleansing and neither side (except for lunatic fringes) imagines that they can kill all of “the other”.
Tragically, the lunatics on both sides have voices that are listened to too much. And a disproportionate amount of what passes for the policy of these genocidal nuts somehow morphs into tragic actions. No need to review what Hamas did on 10/7 and in the time since then. And the carnage that has killed almost 42,000 in Gaza speaks for itself.
The fact that the West Bank is now on fire with Israeli Jewish (a distinction that always should be made so blame doesn’t fall on the 23% of Israelis who are Arabs) settler/squatters rampaging get far less attention than it should.
In February of 2023, long before 10/7, hundreds of these settler/squatters rampaged through the Palestinian West Bank town of Hawara, killing one Arab and injuring over a hundred, according to the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem. All this occurred as the IDF sat tranquilly by.
The Hawara incident should have led to an outraged response by Israel’s government. Instead Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said, “Hawara needs to be wiped out. I think the State of Israel needs to do that — not, God forbid, private individuals.”
For those who can get beyond The NY Times paywall, the front page, above the fold article “In Israel, the reality of on state” article is well worth reading. It was written by the Israeli Hagai El-Ad.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/16/opinion/israel-west-bank.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&ngrp=mnp&pvid=A27DF144-8E31-4EFE-B08D-1342EA73E1FE
If you are using B'Tselem and NYT for your information, you are getting very biased views. I'm not saying don't read them, but also read other sources that have other approaches and in the end make your own decision. So much of what you write above is wrong and would require a whole separate article to refute the points.
In any case, you totally missed the point of the article.
Well. Of course, The NY Times ownership and editorial staff as well as those who are part of B’Tselem are all antisemitic.
So what part of why I wrote did you specifically disagree with? I have no problem agreeing that Palestine/Israel was populated by Jews hundreds and thousands of generations ago.
Are you a Hawara denier?
I think we had this discussion already. Palestinians are not Arabs. They are genetically indigenous. They just skip over the fact that this means they’re 70% Jewish. Egyptian Moroccans Syrians Iraqis are all Arabized locals. It wasn’t Arab colonialism. It was Arab conquest.
In order to "conquest" one needs soldiers. Part of the conquest is impregnating the local population.
If they want to claim indigenous status because they are Islamized Jews, then let them say that rather than saying they are Canaanites. It would be interesting if 70% (if that is the real stats) of them announced to the world that they are indigenous, not because they are Arabs, but because they are Islamized Jews. Hmmmm.
I speak to Palestinians uploading their genetic data on Reddit (see illustrativedna and search Palestinian). Pretty much 75% of the Palestinians in this group have stipulated they’re Israelites. This sentiment hasn’t reached the general public yet.
Will be interesting to see what happens when it does. Some have already re-entired the tribe by converting to Judaism.