I am sorry, but for once your article lacks accuracy because you took the situation out of context. The sukkah in Hawara was the last desperate attempt of the Jewish residents to ensure their safety.
At that time the road bypassing Hawara was not yet opened (the construction being frozen by the previous government, it took about a year under current government to resume and finish the construction). The Jewish residents of the area had no choice but to drive through the town, often at a very slow speed due to heavy traffic. It resulted in several terrorist attacks.
The army and the police refused repeatedly to position a permanent post in Hawara. The sukkah was built, and one of MKs was present there to force the police to take the action. It did the trick - you can see a police vehicle in the video.
There was no "land grab" on "settlers invasion" - it was a temporary measure to ensure safety of Jewish drives till the bypass road was finished. Actually, the same method was used by Ben Gvir about a year before when Jerusalem police refused to stump out riots in Shmuel HaNavi block - he set up a "temporary MK reception tent" there forcing the police to position a patrol there
How can anyone see an equivalency between holding a prayer and study session with the Hamas invasion and atrocities? I ask because I try to consider how the no educated reader might misunderstand what I write
They don't need equivalency! The overage "western liberal" will totally ignore the second video (it is uncomfortable "old news" they spent last 19 months ignoring and/or justifying) , but use the first one as a proof of "nasty Jews insulting poor palestinians in their town".
Maybe it is just me spending too much time on social media lately, but that is my impression
I can see your point. The average "western liberal" totally ignores anything that doesn't fit their narrative. And if the second video is "old news" then so is the first one, taken just one day before that.
I still think there is value in an article like mine for those who are still open to different ways of looking at what they may have been seeing in any case. For the ones you refer to -- well, given comments I deal with here, I have certainly seen those closed minded people who don't want to be confused with facts. I write for the undecideds.
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. I appreciate it.
You are doing important job, please don't take my comment as a criticism of your article. I just think giving the context of the first video is important - less probability someone will try and twist it against us
Are you referring to the Israeli citizens living in Area C of Judea and Samaria, aka the west bank? Area C that Arafat agreed would be under exclusive Israeli control when he signed the Oslo Accords? The main north-south road through Judea-Samara runs through Huwara and Jews must use it to get between work and home. When a by-pass road is built so that Jews don't have to drive through an Arab town, they are called apartheid roads by anti-Zionists even though Arabs use them as well. Go figure!
The Oslo Accords are a dead letter and that has been the case for 30 years. Please advise us what specific areas of Israel would be given up to Palestine to make up for Area C.
You ignore the fact that all those Israelis using apartheid roads are illegally living on stolen land that is outside of Israel.
So, according to you, no Jew can live in Judea and Samaria. Meanwhile, 2 mln Arabs have a right to live in Israel with full citizenship. Apartheid, you say? Look in the mirror! You seam to be perfectly happy with ethnic cleansing of Jews
No, Ira. Assuming full integration of the current settlements with reparations for any land and homes stolen, Jews should be permitted to remain in the nation of Palestine in a minority status that is equivalent to the status that Arab citizens of Israel have. Since the squatter population skews very far to the racist extreme right on the Israeli political spectrum I’m not sure how many from that population would want to be part of a subordinate minority in Palestine but is is satisfying to contemplate Tzippy Scott as a minority in his new country. Daniela Weiss is even more entertaining to contemplate. Maybe one of these Jewish Palestinians could even run for the Palestinian parliament. Tzippy probably be in jail most of the time though.
Dream on. Jews are so over asking permission for anything from anyone...
Arabs are not indigenous to the Land of Israel - Jews are. Brits were very generous with our land, giving them 3/4 of it to establish Jordan. All the rest belongs to Jews.
You don't have to answer - keep your Jew-hatred to yourself
Looking at the comments of Dan Nelson and Nurit Steinfeld here I can understand why you feel like you are whistling in the wind, nevertheless I appreciate your POVs and fact checks and different angles.
You asked if I was saying that Jews should not be permitted in the nation of Palestine just as Arabs live as citizens of Israel. I answered you as clearly as I could that Jews should absolutely be citizens of Palestine in almost an exact mirror image of how. Arabs are citizens of Israel. I also said why I thought right wing Israelis would be hesitant to do this even though free to do so.
Curiously you’ve validated my point by responding as a racist right wing Israeli who clearly believes that whatever you do is “OK because God told me so…”
Clearly I’ve struck a nerve. Now go attack some indigenous people (1500 interrupted years and 125 generations) and destroy their West Bank homes for more land to squat on.
Better yet maybe you can go kill an American boy who commits the sin of not being from “the chosen”. You know, like your peer group in the Tzippyites did with my fellow American, the 14 year old boy Amer Rabee (along with Rachel Corrie, Shireen Abu Aklah and Aysenur Eygi (murdering women must something God said to do…).
Good for you. You’ve outed yourself as a hater. And, of course, your response is so weak that the best you can do is drag out the antisemitism chestnut.
So on to your treasured single state where there will in due course be more of your tribal cousins than there will be Jews.
Since this happened before 10/7, before I obsessively started following news from Israel, I just took in the events from NY Times reporting, Huwara, pogrom, etc. This context about the road and about MKs forcing action is illuminating. First time I’ve heard it. It’s hard to go back and learn about all the #%^! that’s been written about Israel for the r last decade plus.
I am guessing that you meant to write 'pogrom' and not 'pigeon.' I assume you are referring to the violent rampage in Feb 2023 and the word 'pogrom' doesn't fit since it was not a massacre. Yes, there were burned cars and building, and I think one person murdered. That does not make for a massacre. I am opposed to such vigilantism, Nurit, but it was not a pogrom regardless of how many called it that.
"Terror attacks against Jews are commonplace events. In the last five weeks alone, 13 Jews were slain by Palestinian terrorists."
Please read these two sentences again.
And then the article goes on:
"But while the notion that the Jewish “settlers” living in Judea and Samaria are engaged in a constant campaign of violence against their Arab neighbors remains a consistent theme of critics of Israel, examples of Jews attempting to exact some sort of revenge for terrorism are actually rare. Certainly, events on the scale of the riot in Huwara are almost unknown.
For Jews to behave in this fashion is not normative. That’s true even for “settlers” who are often falsely portrayed by both their left-wing Israeli political antagonists and foreign opponents of the Jewish state as wild-eyed religious fanatics boiling over with hate for Arabs. Incidents of “settler violence” amount to a fraction of the number of attacks of all sorts on Jews in Judea and Samaria. Even so, such actions are the work of a tiny fraction of the several hundred thousand Jews living across the “Green Line.” "
Oct 7th was defined by Israel as an act of war -- a violation of the ceasefire. Every terrorist murder in Judea and Samaria could also be defined as an act of war, if the government had a spine. The fact that it isn't keeps it going on. If the settlers were truly protected from terrorism, you would not see vigilantism. I am not condoning them, but explaining why they do it -- not out of hatred for Arabs, but out of a felt need to protect Jews in J&S.
The sukkah in Huwara that caused no deaths or injuries was roundly condemned. The killing of Jews is not.
yes, of course I meant pogrom, so sorry about the typo. The Israeli right acts much like Hamas by provoking responses to their violence in order to justify more violence. The attack on Hwarra was called a pogrom in Israeli media, not just by critics of Israel and although it does not justify terrorism. What is most tragic is that these violoent settlers are not prosecuted by police and their actions are not prevented by the army. And although it may seem like not much to you, I think that the burning of building and cars and the actual killing of a person, even if it just one person, and terrorizing the residents of Hawarra is just as bad as Palestinian terrorism and we Israelis should take responsibility for it and prevent such activities instead of encouraging them.
I am sorry, but for once your article lacks accuracy because you took the situation out of context. The sukkah in Hawara was the last desperate attempt of the Jewish residents to ensure their safety.
At that time the road bypassing Hawara was not yet opened (the construction being frozen by the previous government, it took about a year under current government to resume and finish the construction). The Jewish residents of the area had no choice but to drive through the town, often at a very slow speed due to heavy traffic. It resulted in several terrorist attacks.
The army and the police refused repeatedly to position a permanent post in Hawara. The sukkah was built, and one of MKs was present there to force the police to take the action. It did the trick - you can see a police vehicle in the video.
There was no "land grab" on "settlers invasion" - it was a temporary measure to ensure safety of Jewish drives till the bypass road was finished. Actually, the same method was used by Ben Gvir about a year before when Jerusalem police refused to stump out riots in Shmuel HaNavi block - he set up a "temporary MK reception tent" there forcing the police to position a patrol there
You missed the sarcasm in my article
I didn't :) But a non-educated person reading it will definitely take it at face value.
To illustrate your point I would use a teenaged Jewish shepherd with his sheep - and a mob uprooting freshly planted grape vines
How can anyone see an equivalency between holding a prayer and study session with the Hamas invasion and atrocities? I ask because I try to consider how the no educated reader might misunderstand what I write
They don't need equivalency! The overage "western liberal" will totally ignore the second video (it is uncomfortable "old news" they spent last 19 months ignoring and/or justifying) , but use the first one as a proof of "nasty Jews insulting poor palestinians in their town".
Maybe it is just me spending too much time on social media lately, but that is my impression
I can see your point. The average "western liberal" totally ignores anything that doesn't fit their narrative. And if the second video is "old news" then so is the first one, taken just one day before that.
I still think there is value in an article like mine for those who are still open to different ways of looking at what they may have been seeing in any case. For the ones you refer to -- well, given comments I deal with here, I have certainly seen those closed minded people who don't want to be confused with facts. I write for the undecideds.
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. I appreciate it.
You are doing important job, please don't take my comment as a criticism of your article. I just think giving the context of the first video is important - less probability someone will try and twist it against us
Why are these Israeli citizens doing this outside of Israel?
Are you referring to the Israeli citizens living in Area C of Judea and Samaria, aka the west bank? Area C that Arafat agreed would be under exclusive Israeli control when he signed the Oslo Accords? The main north-south road through Judea-Samara runs through Huwara and Jews must use it to get between work and home. When a by-pass road is built so that Jews don't have to drive through an Arab town, they are called apartheid roads by anti-Zionists even though Arabs use them as well. Go figure!
The Oslo Accords are a dead letter and that has been the case for 30 years. Please advise us what specific areas of Israel would be given up to Palestine to make up for Area C.
You ignore the fact that all those Israelis using apartheid roads are illegally living on stolen land that is outside of Israel.
So, according to you, no Jew can live in Judea and Samaria. Meanwhile, 2 mln Arabs have a right to live in Israel with full citizenship. Apartheid, you say? Look in the mirror! You seam to be perfectly happy with ethnic cleansing of Jews
No, Ira. Assuming full integration of the current settlements with reparations for any land and homes stolen, Jews should be permitted to remain in the nation of Palestine in a minority status that is equivalent to the status that Arab citizens of Israel have. Since the squatter population skews very far to the racist extreme right on the Israeli political spectrum I’m not sure how many from that population would want to be part of a subordinate minority in Palestine but is is satisfying to contemplate Tzippy Scott as a minority in his new country. Daniela Weiss is even more entertaining to contemplate. Maybe one of these Jewish Palestinians could even run for the Palestinian parliament. Tzippy probably be in jail most of the time though.
Dream on. Jews are so over asking permission for anything from anyone...
Arabs are not indigenous to the Land of Israel - Jews are. Brits were very generous with our land, giving them 3/4 of it to establish Jordan. All the rest belongs to Jews.
You don't have to answer - keep your Jew-hatred to yourself
Looking at the comments of Dan Nelson and Nurit Steinfeld here I can understand why you feel like you are whistling in the wind, nevertheless I appreciate your POVs and fact checks and different angles.
Thanks. I do my best
You asked if I was saying that Jews should not be permitted in the nation of Palestine just as Arabs live as citizens of Israel. I answered you as clearly as I could that Jews should absolutely be citizens of Palestine in almost an exact mirror image of how. Arabs are citizens of Israel. I also said why I thought right wing Israelis would be hesitant to do this even though free to do so.
Curiously you’ve validated my point by responding as a racist right wing Israeli who clearly believes that whatever you do is “OK because God told me so…”
Clearly I’ve struck a nerve. Now go attack some indigenous people (1500 interrupted years and 125 generations) and destroy their West Bank homes for more land to squat on.
Better yet maybe you can go kill an American boy who commits the sin of not being from “the chosen”. You know, like your peer group in the Tzippyites did with my fellow American, the 14 year old boy Amer Rabee (along with Rachel Corrie, Shireen Abu Aklah and Aysenur Eygi (murdering women must something God said to do…).
Good for you. You’ve outed yourself as a hater. And, of course, your response is so weak that the best you can do is drag out the antisemitism chestnut.
So on to your treasured single state where there will in due course be more of your tribal cousins than there will be Jews.
Since this happened before 10/7, before I obsessively started following news from Israel, I just took in the events from NY Times reporting, Huwara, pogrom, etc. This context about the road and about MKs forcing action is illuminating. First time I’ve heard it. It’s hard to go back and learn about all the #%^! that’s been written about Israel for the r last decade plus.
Really Shiri? You did not hear about the pigeon in Hawarra? The burning of cars and buildings in Hawarra? Look it up
I am guessing that you meant to write 'pogrom' and not 'pigeon.' I assume you are referring to the violent rampage in Feb 2023 and the word 'pogrom' doesn't fit since it was not a massacre. Yes, there were burned cars and building, and I think one person murdered. That does not make for a massacre. I am opposed to such vigilantism, Nurit, but it was not a pogrom regardless of how many called it that.
Here is something I agree with (published in JNS -https://www.jns.org/judge-the-jewish-rioters-but-dont-rationalize-arab-murderers/?utm_source=chatgpt.com):
"Terror attacks against Jews are commonplace events. In the last five weeks alone, 13 Jews were slain by Palestinian terrorists."
Please read these two sentences again.
And then the article goes on:
"But while the notion that the Jewish “settlers” living in Judea and Samaria are engaged in a constant campaign of violence against their Arab neighbors remains a consistent theme of critics of Israel, examples of Jews attempting to exact some sort of revenge for terrorism are actually rare. Certainly, events on the scale of the riot in Huwara are almost unknown.
For Jews to behave in this fashion is not normative. That’s true even for “settlers” who are often falsely portrayed by both their left-wing Israeli political antagonists and foreign opponents of the Jewish state as wild-eyed religious fanatics boiling over with hate for Arabs. Incidents of “settler violence” amount to a fraction of the number of attacks of all sorts on Jews in Judea and Samaria. Even so, such actions are the work of a tiny fraction of the several hundred thousand Jews living across the “Green Line.” "
Oct 7th was defined by Israel as an act of war -- a violation of the ceasefire. Every terrorist murder in Judea and Samaria could also be defined as an act of war, if the government had a spine. The fact that it isn't keeps it going on. If the settlers were truly protected from terrorism, you would not see vigilantism. I am not condoning them, but explaining why they do it -- not out of hatred for Arabs, but out of a felt need to protect Jews in J&S.
The sukkah in Huwara that caused no deaths or injuries was roundly condemned. The killing of Jews is not.
yes, of course I meant pogrom, so sorry about the typo. The Israeli right acts much like Hamas by provoking responses to their violence in order to justify more violence. The attack on Hwarra was called a pogrom in Israeli media, not just by critics of Israel and although it does not justify terrorism. What is most tragic is that these violoent settlers are not prosecuted by police and their actions are not prevented by the army. And although it may seem like not much to you, I think that the burning of building and cars and the actual killing of a person, even if it just one person, and terrorizing the residents of Hawarra is just as bad as Palestinian terrorism and we Israelis should take responsibility for it and prevent such activities instead of encouraging them.