“I cannot not see the victims of those terrorists we are setting free. I cannot not imagine those victims, babies among them, who will be killed because we are setting these monsters free.
I see them and I see the hostages’ faces as well.
And I still ask — what is the moral decision here? What is the right decision here? Is the answer to both these questions the same?”. This is the crux of the matter.. we know this is a deal with the devil, and after it’s done, it will be up to us to hunt them down, one by one… and someone will have our backs this time… it is still horrible.. imagine freeing Eichmann and Rudolf Hess..
Like all of us I am happy for the release of some of the hostages, but "the deal" sucks.
It encourages the murder, rape, and kidnapping of Jewish Israelis.
The only way that it makes any sense to me is if it is part of a larger plan to free the hostages before confronting state-sponsored Jihadism and the crushing of Hamas.
Unless and until there is a sea change in the entire paradigm of rewarding terrorism, this wash rinse repeat cycle will continue.
We cannot influence a Jew hating or indifferent international community, but we can provide more appropriate incentives /disincentives for those who want nothing more than exterminate us all.
What can stop someone so indoctrinated into a death cult that both killing Jews and becoming a martyr is a win, and who cares nothing for his own people?
Some examples:
1) Every individual killed while committing a terror attack becomes an automatic organ/tissue donor (to the extent medically possible), so they know they risk saving more Jews than they kill.
2) Do Jews “love life” and adhere to the concept of pikuach nefesh? If so no more exchanging live terrorists (who will most certainly kill again) for the bodies of dead Israelis. Instead every terrorist killed in any operation should be held indefinitely for this purpose - preferably in a bag containing portions of forbidden pig.
3) The death penalty must be applied to any captured killer whose motive is purely terrorism, removing them from the equation and making abductions less attractive. Streamline the legal system and get it done asap.
4) Islamist fanatics care for nothing but killing Jews and becoming martyrs - unless it is the intensive reeducation of their children. Family members of upper echelon terrorists should be detained and videos broadcasted of them learning about liberal democratic values, civil/womens/gay rights, and peaceful coexistence.
5) The only other thing these fanatics care about is redeeming “Muslim land” from the clutches of the despised Jews. Israel should announce it is formally annexing a specified portion of “Palestinian” land for every hostage not returned by a certain date.
6) All funds withheld from the PA for their “pay for slay” should be dispersed to families of terror victims annually. The fear of “destabilizing“ the PA has only incentivized them to continue with this odious practice.
I’m sure the Start Up Nation can come up with other innovative ideas which do not involve capitulating to terrorists, a failed strategy which merely incentivizes them to continue their attacks. Publishing such articles might be psychologically cathartic to both write and read, as we unite as a nation in our grief, but do nothing to change this decades-long vicious cycle of exchanging so many for one.
All worthy suggestions. I particularly like (1), but I'm not sure anyone would want to host a terrorist's organ inside them even if it saves their lives.
There is a moral issue here as well -- it would then be possible to accuse Israel, legitimately, of harvesting Palestinian organs, the obvious lie part would be that we kill them for that purpose but that would no longer matter if we would, in fact, harvest organs for transplant.
First of all, the Haredim are not the only rabbinic scholars and authorities. But I get your point. I look forward to the time when Halachic opinions are taken into consideration alongside the secular legal opinions.
The question I ask is, are these the only available terrorists available for exchange? Why these? It would seem there must exist more benign choices? Perhaps the exchanges might be made based on moral equivalency?
It occurred to me as I got your 'like', that the West isn't concerned about the hostages at all, it's only about their self-interested political agenda/gains. They care more about grand, global politics, and their legacies, than the littlest people involved or the long-term effects of their short-term political gain. The West is morally bankrupt, I'm just realizing how much or how completely.
I am trying to refrain from acting like I know more than Israelis about this hostage "deal" but I really can't see how this doesn't just encourage more hostage taking. Culturally though, I realize Americans have a different perspective on this. That said..all those "Palestinians" in their Hamas garb at the hostage handover looked to me like a really nice target for an airstrike.
Israel's government needs to repudiate the evil inclinations of people like Gershon Baskin who see this situation as a "prisoner exchange." Instead, it should recognize this as an example of what economists call a monopsony.
In this micro-market, Hamas et al do not hold a commodity in the hostages, but a form of currency with which they want to purchase a type of goods. Israel is the sole purveyor of those goods, the security prisoners. As a monopsonistic supplier, Israel has the power to set the price and quality of the goods on offer. It should ignore the demands of its prospective customer and declare what lot of product is on offer - on a take it or leave it basis.
It's clear that Hamas understands this situation more clearly than Israel does. Not so long ago (thanks to Baskin), one hostage could purchase over 1,000 security prisoners. In November 2023, the purchasing power reduced to 2.4 (105 hostages only purchased 240 prisoners). Hamas recognized this devaluation of their currency. This latest deal saw Hamas taking advantage of Israel's poor negotiating tactics (driven, I suspect, by the Biden Administration's pressure) to revalue their currency to 30 (three hostages purchasing 90 prisoners), declining slightly to 22 (33 for 734) in the overall first phase.
What Israel needs to recognize is that Hamas has nowhere else to "spend" its hostages. They can only get in return for them what Israel chooses to offer. Moreover, their currency is spoiling as more of the hostages die. Israel should have the will to tell the terrorists that the worst of the security prisoners are simply not for sale, and that the Israel and not Hamas will decide who (if anyone) they will sell for hostages.
Hamas et al fully understand that they only have two forms of leverage in their bargaining: Israel's love for the captives and the international community's pressure. The inauguration of Donald Trump has eliminated that second piece: compared to the unequivocal support of the United States, the combined weight of the rest of the world's opinion is insignificant. If Israel can withstand the internal pressure of those calling on it to "pay any price" and instead tell them that Israel sets the price and the goods on offer for Hamas to pay, it can reframe the entire situation to improve the long-term security of Israel and safety of its citizens.
As I have written before, the fact that Hamas holds Americans hostage makes the United States a party to this situation. Given that none of those Americans have been released by Inauguration Day as President Trump demanded, it's entirely possible that he will declare that the deal must be renegotiated in a tripartisan manner, likely including proposed sanctions on Qatar and Egypt to stop them from acting as advocates for Hamas. He would probably prefer to convince Hamas to accept a release of all hostages and safe passage out of Gaza than to let the current deal play out with Israel subsequently resuming military operations to drive Hamas out of Gaza. The US has bigger bunker-buster bombs than it has yet supplied to Israel, and a demonstration of their power as was done in Afghanistan might convince the Gazan terrorists that a deal is the only way to escape so they can live to fight another day.
I’m still thinking that my idea of implanting a tracker in a stent with a tiny explosive charge or something which activates the body’s own clotting cascade which would block off blood flow, into the left anterior descending coronary artery, (a clot happening there commonly called ‘The Widowmaker’) would be appropriate for these types. Track these individuals, learn all you can about where they go and who they meet. If they head into Israel they can be intercepted, the clotting cascade activated and they suffer a ‘sudden unsurvivable myocardial infarction’.
It is an array of emotions to see young girls back to loving family after over a year in hell, but to know a survivor of terror and the injustice that is felt at the release of torturers.
Thank you for posting this.
Right, Sheri. Bless the hostages but hate the deal. Trump doesn’t give in so he would not expect that of Netanyahu. When the last hostage is back…
“I cannot not see the victims of those terrorists we are setting free. I cannot not imagine those victims, babies among them, who will be killed because we are setting these monsters free.
I see them and I see the hostages’ faces as well.
And I still ask — what is the moral decision here? What is the right decision here? Is the answer to both these questions the same?”. This is the crux of the matter.. we know this is a deal with the devil, and after it’s done, it will be up to us to hunt them down, one by one… and someone will have our backs this time… it is still horrible.. imagine freeing Eichmann and Rudolf Hess..
We might see positive changes because of Trumps order that no money can go to UNWRA.
I am hoping that Phase One is this horrible deal to release these human demons.
Phase Two is get all our hostages back.
Phase Three is a US-led effort to carpet bomb Gaza, making the WWII bombing of Dresden look like a Quaker meeting.
In that scenario, let them free. We're going to cook them to ashes from above three months from now.
From my electronic lips to Hashem's ears.
Amen to that
Like all of us I am happy for the release of some of the hostages, but "the deal" sucks.
It encourages the murder, rape, and kidnapping of Jewish Israelis.
The only way that it makes any sense to me is if it is part of a larger plan to free the hostages before confronting state-sponsored Jihadism and the crushing of Hamas.
Unless and until there is a sea change in the entire paradigm of rewarding terrorism, this wash rinse repeat cycle will continue.
We cannot influence a Jew hating or indifferent international community, but we can provide more appropriate incentives /disincentives for those who want nothing more than exterminate us all.
What can stop someone so indoctrinated into a death cult that both killing Jews and becoming a martyr is a win, and who cares nothing for his own people?
Some examples:
1) Every individual killed while committing a terror attack becomes an automatic organ/tissue donor (to the extent medically possible), so they know they risk saving more Jews than they kill.
2) Do Jews “love life” and adhere to the concept of pikuach nefesh? If so no more exchanging live terrorists (who will most certainly kill again) for the bodies of dead Israelis. Instead every terrorist killed in any operation should be held indefinitely for this purpose - preferably in a bag containing portions of forbidden pig.
3) The death penalty must be applied to any captured killer whose motive is purely terrorism, removing them from the equation and making abductions less attractive. Streamline the legal system and get it done asap.
4) Islamist fanatics care for nothing but killing Jews and becoming martyrs - unless it is the intensive reeducation of their children. Family members of upper echelon terrorists should be detained and videos broadcasted of them learning about liberal democratic values, civil/womens/gay rights, and peaceful coexistence.
5) The only other thing these fanatics care about is redeeming “Muslim land” from the clutches of the despised Jews. Israel should announce it is formally annexing a specified portion of “Palestinian” land for every hostage not returned by a certain date.
6) All funds withheld from the PA for their “pay for slay” should be dispersed to families of terror victims annually. The fear of “destabilizing“ the PA has only incentivized them to continue with this odious practice.
I’m sure the Start Up Nation can come up with other innovative ideas which do not involve capitulating to terrorists, a failed strategy which merely incentivizes them to continue their attacks. Publishing such articles might be psychologically cathartic to both write and read, as we unite as a nation in our grief, but do nothing to change this decades-long vicious cycle of exchanging so many for one.
All worthy suggestions. I particularly like (1), but I'm not sure anyone would want to host a terrorist's organ inside them even if it saves their lives.
There is a moral issue here as well -- it would then be possible to accuse Israel, legitimately, of harvesting Palestinian organs, the obvious lie part would be that we kill them for that purpose but that would no longer matter if we would, in fact, harvest organs for transplant.
Would the Halachic decision differ from the actual current governmental one? Why not ask the Haredim for their take?
First of all, the Haredim are not the only rabbinic scholars and authorities. But I get your point. I look forward to the time when Halachic opinions are taken into consideration alongside the secular legal opinions.
The question I ask is, are these the only available terrorists available for exchange? Why these? It would seem there must exist more benign choices? Perhaps the exchanges might be made based on moral equivalency?
You are so rational!!! The terrorists exchanged are those Hamas put on its list of demanded releasees. Israel vetoed some of them but not all.
Moral equivalency would not allow any exchange at all of terrorists for hostages.
It occurred to me as I got your 'like', that the West isn't concerned about the hostages at all, it's only about their self-interested political agenda/gains. They care more about grand, global politics, and their legacies, than the littlest people involved or the long-term effects of their short-term political gain. The West is morally bankrupt, I'm just realizing how much or how completely.
I am trying to refrain from acting like I know more than Israelis about this hostage "deal" but I really can't see how this doesn't just encourage more hostage taking. Culturally though, I realize Americans have a different perspective on this. That said..all those "Palestinians" in their Hamas garb at the hostage handover looked to me like a really nice target for an airstrike.
You are absolutely correct that it encourages more abductions.
An airstrike would have been nice but Israel does not violate ceasefires. OOF.
Yes my "airstrike" comment was tongue in cheek or just venting some frustration I suppose.
I can certainly understand the need to vent
Israel's government needs to repudiate the evil inclinations of people like Gershon Baskin who see this situation as a "prisoner exchange." Instead, it should recognize this as an example of what economists call a monopsony.
In this micro-market, Hamas et al do not hold a commodity in the hostages, but a form of currency with which they want to purchase a type of goods. Israel is the sole purveyor of those goods, the security prisoners. As a monopsonistic supplier, Israel has the power to set the price and quality of the goods on offer. It should ignore the demands of its prospective customer and declare what lot of product is on offer - on a take it or leave it basis.
It's clear that Hamas understands this situation more clearly than Israel does. Not so long ago (thanks to Baskin), one hostage could purchase over 1,000 security prisoners. In November 2023, the purchasing power reduced to 2.4 (105 hostages only purchased 240 prisoners). Hamas recognized this devaluation of their currency. This latest deal saw Hamas taking advantage of Israel's poor negotiating tactics (driven, I suspect, by the Biden Administration's pressure) to revalue their currency to 30 (three hostages purchasing 90 prisoners), declining slightly to 22 (33 for 734) in the overall first phase.
What Israel needs to recognize is that Hamas has nowhere else to "spend" its hostages. They can only get in return for them what Israel chooses to offer. Moreover, their currency is spoiling as more of the hostages die. Israel should have the will to tell the terrorists that the worst of the security prisoners are simply not for sale, and that the Israel and not Hamas will decide who (if anyone) they will sell for hostages.
Hamas et al fully understand that they only have two forms of leverage in their bargaining: Israel's love for the captives and the international community's pressure. The inauguration of Donald Trump has eliminated that second piece: compared to the unequivocal support of the United States, the combined weight of the rest of the world's opinion is insignificant. If Israel can withstand the internal pressure of those calling on it to "pay any price" and instead tell them that Israel sets the price and the goods on offer for Hamas to pay, it can reframe the entire situation to improve the long-term security of Israel and safety of its citizens.
Your analysis is right on! Cold. And right on. The way it should be. Have you not written this up as an article?
As I have written before, the fact that Hamas holds Americans hostage makes the United States a party to this situation. Given that none of those Americans have been released by Inauguration Day as President Trump demanded, it's entirely possible that he will declare that the deal must be renegotiated in a tripartisan manner, likely including proposed sanctions on Qatar and Egypt to stop them from acting as advocates for Hamas. He would probably prefer to convince Hamas to accept a release of all hostages and safe passage out of Gaza than to let the current deal play out with Israel subsequently resuming military operations to drive Hamas out of Gaza. The US has bigger bunker-buster bombs than it has yet supplied to Israel, and a demonstration of their power as was done in Afghanistan might convince the Gazan terrorists that a deal is the only way to escape so they can live to fight another day.
sounds good to me
I’m still thinking that my idea of implanting a tracker in a stent with a tiny explosive charge or something which activates the body’s own clotting cascade which would block off blood flow, into the left anterior descending coronary artery, (a clot happening there commonly called ‘The Widowmaker’) would be appropriate for these types. Track these individuals, learn all you can about where they go and who they meet. If they head into Israel they can be intercepted, the clotting cascade activated and they suffer a ‘sudden unsurvivable myocardial infarction’.
sounds good to me
My gosh this is terrible. I can't believe Israel would agree to this. And the United States, mainly Trump, would agree to this.
It is an array of emotions to see young girls back to loving family after over a year in hell, but to know a survivor of terror and the injustice that is felt at the release of torturers.
There is joy and sadness mixed together.
Nope. The same people who approve of it in theory are unmoved by the suffering of the victims, however explicit the pictures.
sad